Laurie Baedke (00:03.249)
Well, hello and welcome to another episode of the Growth Edge Leadership Podcast. I am your host, Laurie Baedke and today I am honored to welcome Dr. Irma Becerra, the president of Marymount University and one of higher education's most innovative and forward thinking leaders to the show. Since assuming the presidency in 2018, Dr. Becerra has led transformative growth at Marymount, advancing national recognition for innovation, student success,
academic excellence and workforce focused education. A Cuban born American and the first woman to earn a PhD in electrical engineering from Florida International University. Dr. Becerra's career uniquely blends engineering, entrepreneurship, systems thinking and servant leadership. She holds four patents and copyrights, has led research initiatives with organizations including NASA and the National Science Foundation and is a frequent contributor to Forbes Business Council.
on leadership and organizational excellence. Known for her courageous leadership, calm navigation through uncertainty and unwavering commitment to educational access and integrity, Dr. Becerra brings a rare combination of strategic vision, composure and character to every conversation. And I am really excited to explore those themes with her today in a discussion on what it means to really truly lead well at the highest level. So Dr. Becerra, welcome.
Fill in the blanks, offer a little color commentary as we start our conversation today.
Irma Becerra (01:34.381)
Thank you so much, Laurie I'm so excited to be part of your wonderful podcast and the opportunity to share some topics that I think really are of interest to our audience and how to lead with courage, how to lead with calm and serenity in face of uncertainty. Everybody's a bit nervous about what the future will bring, the big disruptions in our
different enterprises, including what AI will bring and how to keep earning the trust and keep moving forward. So I'm excited to have this opportunity and looking forward to our conversation.
Laurie Baedke (02:17.863)
Thank you so much. Well, let's dig right in. When you think about from your perspective as you consider both the work that you steward at Marymount, but just society and the world in general, in leadership, what feels most different to you today compared to even four or five years ago?
Irma Becerra (02:37.166)
For sure, that pace of change. think that leaders always have to deal with new challenges, right? So that's what most CEOs essentially deal with in their different sectors. But even from a higher ed, that if you think about it, you will think that we pretty much do the same thing that we did 500 years ago. A lot has changed and a lot is changing right now.
And these changes are not only what, as we think about AI and how AI will transform every career, but other changes in our environment, like how we deal with international students, some policies about students' ability to borrow. So there is a lot of change that is happening at once.
even coming out of the uncertainty that COVID and dealing with COVID brought to all of us. So I think that the amount of change and the pace of change. So it's for the quantity of things that are changing in our environment and how quickly it's happening. That's what's different.
Laurie Baedke (03:48.455)
Yeah, I totally agree. And the examples that you gave, if you look at every single sector, and I know as we're recording this, you are just coming off of a busy end of an academic semester and commencement celebrations within your institution, you have many diverse disciplines and domains of academic formation being undertaken. And within our society at large, there are so many different industries or sectors that are each facing
different changes. Some sectors are not nearly as influenced by the emergence of AI, for example. But if you look at just the types of change that come at us, they are many. And as you said, the velocity or the pace of change is can be discombobulating. It can bring a lot of uncertainty. I'm curious underneath that, though, what would you say or comment on relative to the things that remain?
constant, even around changes, like things like values, things like courage and integrity in decision making. As you're thinking about the formation of your learners in your institution, how are you in leading the institution and your faculty to help to focus on the tactical, the black and white or the technical elements? But then what are the things people like to call soft skills that you make sure you're a liberal arts institution?
that those are enduring and still front of mind as well because they're important, aren't they?
Irma Becerra (05:23.714)
Yes, and it's interesting because that was exactly my message to our students during commencement. For example, here at Marymount, you mentioned that we a very innovative institution. lean into AI because my training is also in AI. I did a lot of neural networks and knowledge management research.
Laurie Baedke (05:30.419)
Hmm.
Irma Becerra (05:50.817)
years ago when I was a researcher and the work that I did for NASA. And I firmly believe that every sector is going to be touched by AI and yes, some more than others, but we do need to prepare our students to be AI fluent. So our graduates this year, we've prepared them to be AI fluent because the companies that are going to be looking to hire them is going to be expecting that from them.
Laurie Baedke (06:19.931)
Mm-hmm.
Irma Becerra (06:20.078)
we don't want students to be cheated from their learning opportunity. So we don't want AI to be just how you're able to cheat on a paper that you have to write, right? We want students to use AI in a way that reinforces learning and not that steals learning. But that same token, I also told our students that those values that we educated them on.
What does it mean to be an ethical leader? How do you lead with courage? How do you continue to have the perspective of trying to understand other people's perspectives, in particular, people that may look different than you, or maybe they come from a different part of the world? To continue to be curious, to continue to...
Seek to grow and learn. All of those are what you call the soft skills that we educate our students here at Marymount. And that are those skills are as important as being AI fluent or the specific skills that are required for you to be a good nurse or a good computer scientist. So it's really what you describe as, know, we develop the whole person here and
And I continue to encourage our students to continue to learn, continue to grow, and dig into those values that they learn here at Marymount.
Laurie Baedke (07:54.469)
Yeah, I think that that's fantastic. And you mentioned courage. I'd love to stay there for a moment if you would indulge me. You've written a lot about courage and courageous decision making. How do you define courage at the executive level beyond just bold or big decisions?
Irma Becerra (08:13.006)
Well, courage is about making decisions that are important for your stakeholders, in our cases our students, or the future of our institution to make sure financially viable, even if it's an unpopular decision. And for example, in 2023, we had to make the decision to close programs that were
that students were not selecting at Marymount. And it's not that they were bad programs, they were great programs. It's just that for our student population, they were not selecting those programs. And as an institution, and this applies to any industry that you are in, you cannot be everything to everybody. You need to really understand what is my...
differentiator. How am I, what do I bring to my clients and for us to our students that makes our students pick Marymount over other institutions. We have a liberal arts foundation, but a very practical focused curriculum. And in order for us to continue to address that differentiator for our market,
We needed to double down on some degrees that we were not offering, but our students were interested in. I mentioned the bachelor's in AI. We have a new master's in speech language pathology. We have a doctorate in business intelligence. We have a bachelor's in mechanical engineering. So we had to make the difficult decision of closing programs where for the past...
Five or 10 years students were not selecting in order to launch new programs that a market is telling us they need talent in those areas and students wanted to pursue those degrees. So it was a difficult decision and since 2023 I've seen other universities have also followed the same decision because everybody in higher ed is really rethinking
Irma Becerra (10:28.396)
What is my space? And one of the interesting things about the United States, we have this fabric of universities, each one willing to meet students where they are, but we bring a different flavor or we bring a different advantage to our students. And students today are...
I'm going to say very educated and they understand what is it that they're looking for. They're like an educated consumer. at Marymount, it's similar to your son's alma mater who just graduated. We have that focus on smaller classes, the development of the whole person, and we give that personalized approach to education.
Other students want to have the big university, big football, so we are not that. But we want to double down on what we do well, and this is what leaders need to really understand. What do we do well? What is our strength? And how do we double down on our strength? Even if it means that you're going to stop doing some things that maybe you're not as good at or maybe...
Your customers, your students are not coming to you for that. And that takes courage because oftentimes a leader will, how we say, kick the can down the road. You don't want to make an unpopular decision because that means that people are going to push back or they're going to be unhappy. They're not going to understand why you did that to them. And you are not necessarily doing that to them. You're doing that because you need to.
Laurie Baedke (11:57.309)
me.
Irma Becerra (12:15.768)
first your North Star is your students, but also the future of your institution. So that's when that moment comes where you have to have courage and say, what's best for my customers? What's best for my business? What best for my students? What best for my future of my university? And be ready to answer to those that don't understand why you made that
Why was it critical that you made that decision? And that's where also communicating the decision, the rationale behind it is also equally important.
Laurie Baedke (12:55.975)
Man, I think that's just so fantastic. And you just answered the question I was going to serve you next, which you just gave me the playbook for how you make decisions, make courageous decisions when you know that you might let some people down. You might disappoint individuals, but leadership requires stewardship of the whole and not just appeasement or accommodation of some parts.
I'm curious if you've experienced moments where everyone's looking to you for an answer or a decision and you don't necessarily have all the clarity that you need just yet. How do you lead Dr. Becerra when that circumstance presents? Because leadership at every level occasionally presents a challenge like that to us.
Irma Becerra (13:49.443)
Yeah, that's a very good question because, Laurie, I think this whole idea that a leader always has all the answers, it's a tall order, but one that is not truthful because we don't have all the answers all the time. And I think it's okay for a leader to show some vulnerability, to say, well, I...
don't have the answer for you, but I'm happy to look into it. I'm happy to research it. I will be happy to get back to you once I have an answer because none of us are experts at everything. And it's important that we also recognize that we don't know what we don't know, correct? So anyone that is...
Laurie Baedke (14:40.967)
Mm-hmm. Yeah.
Irma Becerra (14:43.436)
standing in front of their organization and says, I have all the answers, is really not even being truthful with themselves. Because oftentimes, we don't know what we don't know. So that's where having a good team around you that will be willing to share with you their perspectives. Sometimes you need to pull that out of your team, because they may be hesitant to share that with you. In particular,
Laurie Baedke (14:55.059)
Mm-hmm.
Irma Becerra (15:12.65)
if they want to share something with you that is also maybe not something fun to share or not something that we don't want to hear. But as leaders, we need to listen attentively. We need to make sure that we are aware of unintended consequences. A lot of times I see leaders making decisions and they fail to really fully understand what are some of the negative
what are some of the negative consequences that could come from that decision? And we do that, we see that at every level. even some of the decisions that are made at our nation's capital, That I'm here so close to Washington, D.C. And I see some of the decisions that are made there that have a slew of unintended consequences. And if you rush these decisions through, sometimes you may not be able to necessarily.
understand the negative consequences. So there is this balance between making effective decisions at the pace that they need to be made because you cannot also not having analysis paralysis is also not good for the organization but also the consequences of maybe rushing a decision without really giving some thought to the unintended consequences.
Laurie Baedke (16:36.027)
I totally agree. And there are just so many rich pearls in what you just shared, Dr. Becerra. think first and foremost, you alluded to the role of leaders and the way that they shape the culture of decision-making in a team. And you didn't use the term psychological safety, but the vulnerability, the humility or the curiosity with which leaders proceed or talk about uncertainty or insecurity breeds the type of team environment.
where he or she opens themselves up to the support and the possible dissent of trusted colleagues around them. I think it's also so important that each of us as leaders surround ourselves with other wise counsel outside so that we have people that can hold up a mirror or challenge us or offer wisdom when those difficult or courageous decisions and likely uncertainty presents. And I just think also,
at the highest levels of leadership, you as a university president, you are by example, shaping the expectations or setting the expectations for your direct reports and for your faculty, for your learners, because when people see or hear that Dr. Becerra is this type of a leader, Dr. Becerra changed her mind because of, you know, the input or insight that wasn't her inclination, but
helped her to make the most sustainable long-term decision. That type of leadership by example offers a trickle down effect on the formation of all leaders and the way that leaders contribute to culture. I just don't think it can be overstated. And so I love these insights that you're sharing. I'd love to tee you up to talk about where you see that leaders can often be most tempted to compromise integrity.
in decision making or in practice these days.
Irma Becerra (18:32.942)
I think some of the pressures come when you need to meet certain targets. And we've seen it where institutions that have compromised their ethics in order to gain spots in the national rankings. So there is a lot of times a lot of pressure for performing in a specific way. And that happens in every industry. I think also people may be worried about pushback.
And it could be pushed back from their customers. It could be push back from their employees. So pushback is really difficult to navigate at times. And especially in these days of social media, when all of a sudden a small group of dissenting customers could create a huge negative media backlash for any.
or any company, any enterprise, any university. So I think that that's where leaders feel sometimes a little bit pressure to maybe behave in a way that even though they realize it's not the right way to go forward, they feel pressure. They sort of feel like against the wall. Also the...
These days, people don't hesitate to launch personal attacks against leaders in a way that I've never seen that before. And at the end of the day, we're all trying to do a good job. We're all human. So I think that a lot of times we are held to a certain standard. Again, it's important for leaders to lead by example.
But at end of the day, we're also human beings with family needs, with other pressures. So trying to just keep up this expectation that you're never going to make a mistake, that you are not vulnerable. And we all are in one way or the other.
Laurie Baedke (20:47.835)
Indeed. Yeah. And I think that that is a really important point. We are definitely in uncharted territory as it pertains to just the amount of visibility that we have because of social media, because of cameras and recordings and so much else that it can bring a paralyzing and really intimidating presence to any of our
Irma Becerra (21:12.483)
Yes.
Laurie Baedke (21:15.149)
smaller or larger decisions and actions and behaviors. But I think the worst thing that can happen is that someone absolutely freezes and doesn't step into the important work of humanity. And so how, if you're coaching or counseling someone in your institution around how they proceed in this space,
How do you distinguish between or how do you help someone to discern and proceed between courageous leadership or maybe just the avoidance that might be tendent or likely?
Irma Becerra (21:56.039)
Yeah, so many things in the way we lead are like tensions, right? And we spoke about leading with courage and giving careful thought to unintended consequences. But you also are asked to be a decisive leader and move forward because if not, you could have, you could suffer of this analysis paralysis. And we are making decisions every day.
even in the absence of complete information. So how do you move forward when you don't have, when you have maybe 55 % of the information that you need? And I think what's important is that once you make a decision, you listen attentively at what is the outcome and then continue to kind of validate, well,
I'm having this outcome, was it still the right decision? And then you can say, it was, let's say 10 % of my employees were not happy or maybe 10 % of my students were not happy, but 90 % understand the value of this decision and they can align or maybe it's.
40 % or 45 % did not like it, but 55 % understand the value. think that that kind of going back and checking, kind of sensing the environment, it's always important. And I'm not advocating for them leaders to kind of flip-flop, but at least be in tune, be aware, and then have a plan.
Laurie Baedke (23:39.251)
Mm.
Irma Becerra (23:43.149)
Because if a decision that you've made, for example, causes some kind of a social media spillover, that actually happened to me when I closed those programs that were on the road, then what's going to be your strategy moving forward? And for us, we decided to let the dust settle. And the dust actually ends up settling at some point.
Laurie Baedke (23:50.087)
Thank you.
Laurie Baedke (24:06.941)
Mm-hmm.
Irma Becerra (24:12.706)
taking a perspective of antagonistic to whatever push you're getting, sometimes just extends the period where people are going to feel antagonistic. So at that point, a leader then may be consulting with a group of experts that will tell you, well, this is the path that you should take, and then you go ahead and you go forward in that path.
So this is a great question, Laurie, because it's about the tension. It's about the tension of acting decisively versus understanding carefully the unintended consequences and deciding do I want to continue forward was why did I make that decision? Who ultimately benefits? And like I said before, when I think about difficult decisions, I always think
Laurie Baedke (24:45.511)
Yes. Yes.
Irma Becerra (25:09.206)
what's best for our students. That helps me ground my decision. What's best for my students? What's best for the future of this institution? So I think having a north star is important because that's how you're going to be able to feel confident that you made the right decision and sleep well at night, correct?
Laurie Baedke (25:11.027)
Thank
Laurie Baedke (25:36.645)
Indeed. Yes. And unfortunately, the reality is that every single one of us will face circumstances where someone is not necessarily going to like the decision that we made, right? It might be as simple as, know, your child doesn't like what you decided to serve for dinner, or your partner doesn't like the restaurant decision for this week's whatever, or all the way up to really
Irma Becerra (25:50.028)
Yes, yes.
Irma Becerra (25:56.748)
Yes.
Laurie Baedke (26:05.767)
difficult and consequential strategic decisions at an organizational or institutional level that there might not be individuals who like that. And that can be really difficult for leaders because so many individuals who are high achieving, we can succumb to people pleasing tendencies. It has become so normal that we put in an effort and there is a linear outcome that is positive, but that's not guaranteed in leadership. And I think it's one of the most
Irma Becerra (26:30.179)
Yes.
Laurie Baedke (26:33.947)
difficult things, you talked about tensions and that dissonance is really challenging for any of us to accept. But again, you're telling us that the sustainability when you're thinking about your mission as an institution, always thinking about the students and the learners and the long-term as a decision-making framework, I think is just so practical. But our time is.
running short and you just mentioned north star Dr. Becerra. So I would love to ask you, is there one non-negotiable standard that you hold yourself to as a leader?
Irma Becerra (27:11.212)
Yeah, I'm pretty clear about my values. I am, I always will act according to the best of my ability. I always want to be truthful. It's funny, I've never been able to lie my whole life, Laurie. I always say, if you want a poker player, I'm not that person.
Because I have a face that tells you everything. So I can't help it. A lot of people say, well, you're going to try to change your, you don't speak so loudly with your face, but Laurie, it's who I am, right? So I always want to make sure that I communicate that I will always act according to my values.
my moral convictions and also that I will make decisions to the best of my ability at that moment. I think we all sometimes, you know, we all suffer from a little bit of that Monday morning quarterback syndrome and you look back and say, did I make the right decision at that time? But we also as leaders have to give ourselves grace and we have to give ourselves grace that I acted at that moment.
with the best information that I have, with the best of my ability, with the best advice that I had at that moment. And yes, no one should expect that none of us are always gonna make the right decision every day. And I learned something years ago from somebody that said, in any one day you make a hundred decisions. If 51 % of the decisions that you made were good, you had a good day, right?
Laurie Baedke (29:05.683)
Mm-hmm.
Irma Becerra (29:06.466)
So that's giving yourself grace about you do the best you can. These are complex times. We don't always have every piece of information that we need to make the best decision. But if you're acting according to your ethics, your values, your north star for me, is what's best for our students and what's best for the university, then you can always feel confident that you make the best decision.
Laurie Baedke (29:36.689)
and get up and try your best again tomorrow. Yes.
Irma Becerra (29:39.309)
Yes, and make sure you take time to refresh and relax and recharge because we demand a lot out of ourselves. And, Laurie, I've just learned, I'm learning that now because I'm like, go, go, go. But we all need to take some time where we call downtime, maybe a day the weekend that you give yourself grace and sleep in a little bit, or just watch a movie.
that is just sweet and funny and just spend that little bit of time just maybe, you for me, I love like sentimental movie and shed a little tear, but give yourself that opportunity to relax your mind. Maybe you like to play golf, maybe you like to boat, something that fills your spirit, spend time with your kids. That's one of my favorite things to do. have a granddaughter now. I love spending time with her.
So yeah, so it's important for leaders to carve the time for refreshing, recharging and renewing.
Laurie Baedke (30:45.777)
Yes, I so wholly agree and it is important. The work is unrelenting more so now than ever. We have to have to take care of keeping our vessels full so that we can pour into the important work in front of us. Challenge us in closing, Dr. Becerra. My last question for you is what is one question that every leader should be asking themselves right now?
Irma Becerra (31:14.222)
Am I enjoying what I'm doing? Do I feel that I am really making a difference, that I'm making an impact? I think whenever you take on a leadership role, you need to reflect every day. Am I able to make an impact that fulfills me? For me, is being able to help Marymount be on a...
path of sustainability for the future and really move from good to great, which is what I came to do here and see those happy faces at commencement, right? I mentioned to you that I shook 800 hands last Sunday and that was so beautiful, so exciting. That moment that I was able to connect with that student that may not even realize how their lives have
are beginning to transform and this is the first step that their lives, not only their lives, but the entire family's lives are gonna transform because of that college degree. They may be the first in their families to accomplish that important milestone. So I think that as long as you're feeling that sense of fulfillment, of impact at your own commencement day, then...
then you are at the right place. And I think that that's very important for a leader to reflect on.
Laurie Baedke (32:43.739)
Indeed. Well, you have given us so many good things to think about and reflect on, Dr. Becerra I'm just so grateful for your leadership and contributions, both to your institution, but just to our broader global community at large. So thank you for taking time this morning to share with us. I appreciate you.
Irma Becerra (33:02.85)
Thank you, Laurie. appreciate you too. Thank you for giving me this opportunity. Thank you.
