Rebekah Cole (00:00)
I think sponsorship is much more active and really something that moves, can move forward someone's career rather than mentorship, which is more, you know, just guiding or advising or helping to coach through what you want, may want your career to look like, but sponsorship is a more active act of really pulling somebody upward.
⁓ and moving them in a place where they want to be that they might not be able to do on their own.
Laurie Baedke (00:43)
Well, hello and welcome to another episode of the Growth Edge Leadership Podcast. I am your host, Laurie Baedke and I'm excited to be joined today by my guest, Dr. Rebekah Cole.
Dr. Cole is an associate professor and the acting assistant dean of academic success at the Uniformed Services University in Bethesda, Maryland.
She's authored over 90 peer reviewed publications and delivered more than 50 presentations at national and international conferences. She's secured over $2 million in competitive grant funding to support research and educational innovation. And I actually encountered Dr. Cole's research when I found one of the articles that she published on
a mutual topic of interest, is mentorship. So welcome Dr. Cole, fill in the blanks, tell the listener just a little bit about yourself before we dig into your brilliance.
Rebekah Cole (01:38)
Hi everybody, I'm Rebekah. I'm working at the Military Medical School right outside of DC and have been thinking a lot ⁓ over the past year about mentorship and sponsorship and how that impacts career progression. And I think these are the things we all kind of know about, but we don't talk a lot about. So...
think really talking about them and fleshing out the ideas will help us produce more equitable and impactful
Laurie Baedke (02:15)
Wow, fantastic. Well, let's just stay right there. I mean, your work highlights an important distinction between mentorship and sponsorship. From your perspective, what does sponsorship make possible that guidance and advice alone do not, regardless of role or discipline or career station?
Rebekah Cole (02:33)
I think sponsorship is much more active and really something that moves, can move forward someone's career rather than mentorship, which is more, you know, just guiding or advising or helping to coach through what you want, may want your career to look like, but sponsorship is a more active act of really pulling somebody upward.
⁓ and moving them in a place where they want to be that they might not be able to do on their own.
Laurie Baedke (03:10)
Absolutely. I think that sponsorship, in my opinion, the ultimate objective is advancement. And so it is a lot that process or practice of individuals being able to use their power or influence on behalf of others to open doors, perhaps, or maybe expand on the ways that sponsorship can show up because it's not just about
opening a door or serving a connection or making a recommendation, what does your research inform about the different ways that sponsors can engage on behalf of their their protegees or mentees?
Rebekah Cole (03:52)
It might be something as simple as mentioning your name in a meeting or when people are thinking about who's going to fill a position that they would speak on your behalf. ⁓ It could be, you you need to make a presentation or be a speaker and instead you say, hey, how about this person instead? So putting them in that position of influence when there's no way they could have, you know, made that ask on their own.
⁓ I think sponsorship is really looking and seeing potential in other people and thinking about how you could leverage that potential on behalf of them. ⁓ And in the end, I think it's beneficial to both the sponsor and the sponsoree because the sponsor gets to move up and the sponsor might... ⁓
get a colleague who is very empowered and loyal and can really be a good collaborator in the future.
Laurie Baedke (04:56)
Yeah, absolutely. And one of things I've always posited was that it is almost always the case, and I'd welcome if you would agree or disagree with this, it's almost always the case that the people who are activating for us as sponsors are almost always already present in our lives as mentors. I like to refer to them as mentors plus it's a
it's more common that people who are actively mentoring us then occasionally activate. Does this align with your research findings or would you push back on me there?
Rebekah Cole (05:30)
Yeah, I think in order to sponsor someone, probably know them pretty well. I think mentorship is a way that you would really get to know somebody's true intentions and values. so once you trust them and understand them and understand their strengths, I think you'd be more willing to sponsor them in the future.
Laurie Baedke (05:54)
Yeah, no, I, yeah, I agree. think it is, it is pretty rare that someone goes to bat for us or expends their own social or political capital on our behalf. If they don't already have that knowledge and trust that comes from, you know, being in relationship with us, mentoring us. So I like to refer to sponsors as mentors plus, because I think that not all mentors activate as sponsors.
⁓ But it's fairly rare that someone puts cards on the table on our behalf without already being in relationship with us in some way.
Rebekah Cole (06:30)
Yeah, for sure. And I think that is something to think about in being a mentee and seeking out mentors. ⁓ You have to do that work ⁓ in order to have the potential to be sponsored. There's work on both ends.
Laurie Baedke (06:46)
Indeed, indeed. But as you alluded a moment ago, there's benefit on both sides as well then.
Rebekah Cole (06:53)
for sure, building up the workplace, ⁓ making it a place where you know you have good people to work with and that you trust is definitely a benefit for both.
Laurie Baedke (07:03)
Indeed. ⁓ One of the most compelling parts of your work that I observed is the tension that you surface around the fact that sponsorship can accelerate opportunity, but it can also unintentionally reinforce inequities. so talk a little bit with us about that. What should leaders be most mindful of as they decide who they advocate for and why or how?
Rebekah Cole (07:28)
Yeah, I think it's good to maybe sit down and take some time to reflect on who am I mentoring, who am I sponsoring, and are these people just really like me in some ways? Personality, or do they look like me, or do they have a similar background as me? And then thinking about, okay, if the answer to that question is yes, then can I take a look around and maybe...
think about who I could mentor and then potentially sponsor that is different from me and see the value in them as well. think naturally as human beings, tend to gravitate towards the familiar and we like people. We're really comfortable with people who are like us because it's a safe space, but really branching out is good for more equitable purposes, but also
creates better workplace environment because then we start having more diversity of thought and experience and background. It brings to the table and I think that can make us stronger and make our work better.
Laurie Baedke (08:37)
Yeah, no doubt. I think about this so often because as I'm sure is true in your world and your network, so often individuals who tend toward medicine or STEM professions, research, higher education are more likely to be introverted leaning. And so that social inclination to want to throw the net more widely is working against us in terms of overcoming that
homogeneity that can exist. But the business case for or what the evidence tells us is important in terms of diversity of who we're investing in, who we're around. So we are, of course, then learning from can't be overstated. Would you agree?
Rebekah Cole (09:23)
Yeah, definitely. I think to seek out mentorship or to seek out a mentor that takes work and is risky and is vulnerable. So I think we need to be willing to do that and thinking about the benefits of it for ourselves and others, as well as helping with the motivational piece there.
Laurie Baedke (09:46)
Yeah. Can you think of any examples from your observations from individuals that you've mentored or who have mentored you or that you encountered in your research that bring this example to life?
Rebekah Cole (10:00)
That's a really good question.
I think. ⁓
So the question is where diversity is happening and it's been impactful.
Laurie Baedke (10:15)
Yeah, or perhaps someone overcoming their introverted tendencies and seeing the fruit from it. ⁓
Either or.
Rebekah Cole (10:26)
Yeah, so one of the mentors that I have now, ⁓ I would say he could be on the more extroverted side, but he is just so intentional about his mentorship and coaching. And he actually approached me about coaching me. And the first time he kind of made the invitation, I was like, yeah, OK. And I was like, yeah, no way for that.
He was very persistent and so I was like, all right, let's give this a go and meeting with him and being able to have a diverse perspective on how to interact with the world has been really helpful. As an introvert, I'm constantly working on communication and how I express myself to the outside world and in meetings and things like that. So.
I think working with somebody who's different than me and who thinks this is not a big deal at all and does it very naturally has been really helpful to me, especially in modeling that and practicing that with him. ⁓ I've seen definitely seen the fruits of that.
Laurie Baedke (11:43)
Yeah, I've lived that similar journey myself and I just think it's so insightful and we don't know what we don't know until we know it and then we start to realize that it's worth kind of stepping outside of our comfort zone or being proven that something we might have dismissed at face value can teach us a great lesson. You also talk
⁓ in your research about the potential downsides of mentorship or sponsorship, dependency, misaligned expectations, even some toxic dynamics, and across healthcare settings, what are some red flags that indicate or suggest that a sponsorship relationship might be doing more harm than good?
Rebekah Cole (12:28)
So I think whenever a sponsee starts feeling dependent on the sponsor, maybe thinks that they're only successful because of this person and then what happens when this person retires or moves on ⁓ can be maybe some imposter syndrome that could happen there as a risk. ⁓ I think there's also a risk in the workplace climate if.
Some people are getting sponsored and some people aren't and everybody knows who those people are. And then if you're not, then you think it's unfair, then there's discontent about favoritism and things like this. So I think really making sure that there is a potentially a process for it and talking about these things out loud that often happen as part of a hidden curriculum, like under the table, maybe just talking about them.
and within leadership and doing some training about sponsorship. How do I sponsor someone? You know, what happens when some people get sponsored and some people don't? All these things are really important to think about even though they're not necessarily usually.
Laurie Baedke (13:39)
Yeah, now all excellent points. And it kind of leads me to be curious. ⁓ You also invite leaders to reflect on whose potential they're actively leveraging, right? When you're talking about the sponsor identifying their sponsees what blind spots do you see most often among well-intended leaders when it comes to sponsorship? ⁓
Or maybe if you're speaking to someone who's an established leader who is in position to sponsor others, how can you cue them to audit their advocacy habits more honestly or more effectively for the benefit of those that they would be investing in?
Rebekah Cole (14:20)
I think the biggest danger is when there's no sponsorship going on because it takes time and energy and just one more thing. ⁓ But then danger if like the usual people are just getting sponsored or only certain groups of people tend to be sponsored ⁓ or people think that they're sponsoring people and maybe they're not or they're just
doing something that's not actually helpful. Or people are conflating mentorship and sponsorship, all these things, because maybe they've never thought about the differences. So continue reflection, professional development, ⁓ honest discussions are really important in this space.
Laurie Baedke (15:06)
Yeah. Similarly, if there is an emerging leader who doesn't think that they have access to powerful sponsors or who might be navigating a system that wasn't built with them in mind, what forms of self-advocacy are effective without kind of crossing into self-promotion that feels misaligned or risky or entitled?
Rebekah Cole (15:32)
So I think being brave enough to ask for sponsorship is important, but before the ask becomes just what are characteristics that would make you a good sponsee. And being constantly present, like being a listener about what's going on and having a fingertip on being able to read the room and.
how are you making yourself present and making yourself useful and being a problem solver, like doing all these things. And then that really sets you up for your ask. Maybe it's a mentor that you ask, maybe there's somebody else you really admire and then you kind of scoot into the mentorship, sponsorship space with them over a period of time. But I it takes patience and it takes the ability to...
read the situation really well and understand sponsorship and also ⁓ knowing the goals that you have in mind for your career and making sure you're targeting mentors and sponsors that are going to help you meet those goals.
Laurie Baedke (16:41)
Yeah, I'm really glad that you mentioned that last part because I think that that's a big piece of it for mentees, for emerging leaders, for trainees who might think that, you know, it has to be about readiness or visibility and some of those things that feel beyond their reach. Just some of the foundational things of sitting, reflecting on your own growth needs.
and how those align with what feedback that perhaps you've gotten from some of your, you know, faculty members or mentors or advisors over time, and then investing in getting goal clarity as well on what you're wanting short-term, mid-term, long-term, and then sharing those, you know, doing the heavy lifting upfront in prep behind the scenes so that when you come to your conversation with your advisor, your mentor, your would-be sponsor,
you've got more clarity and you can demonstrate ⁓ what you know to be your growth goals and needs. And then that makes it easier for the mentor or sponsor to then know better, okay, here's how I can help Dr. Cole. ⁓ Because the advising load, the mentor load of a lot of very, very valuable individuals.
it's unreasonable sometimes to expect that they can hyper personalize to us. So some of that upfront heavy lift, the sweat equity that a leader can put into preparing themselves to be a model mentee would be Sponsy is where some of the magic can happen. And that's not that front facing. It's the behind the scenes. It's where introverts thrive.
Rebekah Cole (18:24)
Yeah, I wouldn't think that you would want to go and ask somebody to be your sponsor and then it turns more into a mentorship conversation with, well, maybe this isn't the best fit or maybe, I don't know if you're ready, like you want it to be like a slam dunk, yes, and then talking about how they're going
Laurie Baedke (18:42)
Yeah. Well, and because it's an expenditure of social or political capital, because it's a use of power or influence on someone else's behalf, it's something that the requester needs to take very seriously and not have an attitude of entitlement about. So it does require a lot of humility, a lot of demonstration of growth. ⁓ But there's a lot of
There's a lot of bad actors out there as well. And there are plenty of entitled individuals who just think that sponsorship should happen ⁓ naturally.
Rebekah Cole (19:18)
Yeah, I think you probably only get one ask. So you want to make sure that you're ready and that you're making the ask in the right way.
Laurie Baedke (19:25)
Yeah. Any tips for asking in the right way? What are kind some of those best practices or attributes or actions that you would suggest are the best ways to activate a sponsor or an ally on your behalf?
Rebekah Cole (19:44)
If I were to make that ask, would definitely practice beforehand with a mentor or coach and to think about how you want to outline what your strengths are, outline what your goals are and how you can contribute to their mission or to helping them expand on what their goals are or how you're going to fill a gap in a need that they need or their organization needs.
Being able to really clearly articulate that in a way that makes you seem prepared is really important.
Laurie Baedke (20:21)
Yeah, wholly agreed. ⁓ Taking it out of the individual context and kind of zooming up into the organizational context, if healthcare organizations or institutions want to move past or beyond just informal or personality driven mentorship and sponsorship toward programs or cultures that are more inclusive and sustainable, what practices ⁓ make the biggest difference?
Rebekah Cole (20:51)
So I would definitely, thinking about potential programming, start with a needs assessment and really get an idea of what's going on at your organization right now in terms of mentorship and sponsorship and what leadership may think is going on may not be really what's going on. ⁓ So asking everyone, maybe doing focus groups or sending out surveys or interviewing different people to get.
an idea of what's really happening and then from that data to really drive a program that can fill the gap and meet the needs based on what the needs assessment says. And then thinking about putting together a program, maybe looking at other types of programs like this, maybe that have worked well with the organization or other places and trying to model after that so that you have a really systemic system in place for
Here's the people that who have the potential to sponsor and let's educate them about what that really means and how they might do this in a way that's equitable. Then here you have maybe a earlier career population and let's talk to them about sponsorship. Maybe they've never heard about it and then how do they maybe engage with a mentor and then transition into sponsorship and how do you make yourself have the potential to be recognized by a sponsor and to be.
to have them place a bet on you and put their reputation on the line when they say that you're name in a meeting or say that you can do something.
Laurie Baedke (22:30)
I like that. Okay. Several quick questions as we start to wrap toward a close. First, speak directly to the emerging leader, to the rookie, the novice, the trainee. What advice would you most like to give them about mentorship and sponsorship?
Rebekah Cole (22:52)
I would say definitely earn the right to be sponsored and that takes time and use mentorship and coaching to get yourself there and have a start developing clear goals about where you want to be so that you know what type of sponsorship would be beneficial to you, you know it would be a good match and that you can articulate your goals and values and contributions when the time is right.
Laurie Baedke (23:20)
Okay, now speak to the seasoned mentors, the very well established individuals. What might they be overlooking about mentorship that they need to pick up and really consider applying to advance themselves or their own contributions?
Rebekah Cole (23:39)
I would say reflect on.
how you have been sponsored in the past and what was good about that, what was not good about that and integrate the good into your future sponsoring. Also take an inventory of who you mentor and sponsor and think about ⁓ are there any common characteristics or do you have a good diverse population of people that you like to support? And potentially if not, then think about the benefits of
looking at people with various backgrounds and experiences and how they might contribute to your mission and to the growth of your organization.
Laurie Baedke (24:26)
All right, one last question. Is there a question that I haven't asked you that I should have? Is there a piece of your research or a passion or a belief that you have about mentorship or sponsorship that we haven't touched on that you're dying to share before we close?
Rebekah Cole (24:42)
I think at all of us in our end of our careers and when we think about the day that we all retire, think the people who will show up for us then are the ones that we have sponsored and mentored. So when we think about what really matters and what is the most impactful, I think this is the area to consider. And thinking about ways to really optimize that and amplify its potential will have
really lasting and meaningful impact.
Laurie Baedke (25:16)
I couldn't agree more. mean, no doubt about it. Mentorship and sponsorship are an output and they are asked of some of the busiest and, ⁓ you know, most short on time individuals around, but they are absolutely the long game. They are a legacy play, not in a grandiose, you know, egocentric way, but they are the real way to have sustainable impact on a profession, on a community, on
⁓ our world and it's very relational. It's very time intense, but it's also, think, something that the gift goes to the giver. And so for those who are active mentors and sponsors, they know that. And so I just appreciate all of the insight and wisdom that your research shares. I'll definitely be linking ⁓ to you and your work and the article that you published, but I just appreciate your willingness to come and join me on this conversation and share your work, Dr. Cole.
Rebekah Cole (26:14)
Sure thing, thanks for having me.
